Arte Moreno now owns the land of the former Anaheim Stadium and Grove Theater, as well as the ballpark the city has been leasing out to the owners of the Angels club since 1966. He bought it all (un)fair and square from the City of Anaheim late last year for over $300 Million.
He can now either renovate the stadium or build a new one. Let’s look at his options…
A: Pictured here is the stadium as it exists.
PROS: Sentimental attachment to our childhoods, great moments we’ve witnessed there, bragging rights as the fourth oldest stadium in the MLB, go to a few other stadiums and you will probably appreciate a few things about Angel Stadium that you never even realized before, it is not stupendous but it ain’t bad.
CONS: Old, sorta dull/functional, when the Knothole Club is a destination you’re kinda in lame-o-ville, anyone tall sits in front of you in the field or club seats you are watching dandruff flake off and fall not the action of a baseball game.
Now the three other choices here all carry the excitement of a new ballpark! And yet… do we have faith in Angels upper management to deliver a cool park? This is Dullest Kuhl and Yawn Carpino we are talking about, Red Polo Shirted preppy fashion police at the helm. So temper any assumed good things here with the likelihood that the stadium may have so many lame attributes that it will not be as good as the above average but not great stadium we have now.
B. Snuggled up to Amtrak
PROS: If you take the train to game it will make for a quicker walk to and from the park. It will clear perhaps the largest swath of unimpeded land to develop, and remember, all profits from developed land make Arte a happy spender (in theory, he is just as likely to pocket the gains). The Grove remodeled as a old style beer hall would be a major pregame and postgame destination.
CONS: Firework shows would have to be shot out from the Hooters Parking Lot. Is there even still a Hooters there?
C: Gene Autry Way
PROS: Many possibilities to activate a huge outfield vista.
CONS: Knowing Arte this will mean a billboard.
D: By the Big A
PROS: The Big A is returned to its rightful place in the Angels outfield
CONS: So is the 57 Freeway!
Well, they’re going to have to wait for the stupid lawsuit to go thru before they commit to too much, I’m guessing. I really don’t get this town sometimes. Literally two years ago when Mayor Tait successfully stopped the lease deal, the city had the land appraised at about $250 million with the stadium on it and around $325 million without the stadium. So, Sidhu sells the team the land ( just two years later, mind you) for $325 million and some clowns start getting people worked up about back room deals and screwing the taxpayers….led by Paul Kott( real estate agent), the Voice of OC and councilman Jose Moreno. Now some group is filing a lawsuit and Mayor Sidhu is facing a recall petition over it. I swear people are idiots…..
i’m 100% retrofit-for-the-memories guy, but its going to be a financial decision – maximize the ROI, so it’ll be the least desirable piece of real estate from a rent point of view, but as long as there’s great sight lines, i’ll be ok if they get the design right
Yep. I’m very big on historical preservation, so I hope they will renovate and improve the Big A if at all feasible, but if not, so be it.
Having said that, I hope that the resulting stadium is open to its environment, and that it is oriented as pleasantly as possible (i.e., not looking out upon the river or a bunch of condos).
Without question, B. Knock down the Grove and it’s an easy fit.
With all the development on the Southwest corner anyway, it makes sense for Orangewood to be where the majority of ARTE’s new development would be to team up with The George, Golden Road etc.
E, plenty of room between the outfield and the freeway. Get rid of the seating for the scary people in the outfield and Chronic Tacos for a few season of construction. A traditional or north-south orientation still leaves plenty of room for a parking garage for the first base side. Arte can build homeless shelters on the freed up land.
I like B. Make the platform for Amtrak and Metrolink into a plaza connecting seamlessly with the entrance plaza for the left field gate. Trains to Riverside, San Clemente, Tustin, San Bernardino and Palm Springs roll you right to the gates. Sweet. Don’t need as many parking spaces if parking is 40 miles away. More land to develop. Move the Big A to its rightful throne in left field. They moved it once, they can do it again. Put a music venue in where the Grove is now, not as big as Honda Center but good sized, like an OC equivalent to the Greek Theater but indoors, 5000 seats or so. Moving slidewalk from the transit terminal across the freeway, too.
Go big(A), or go home. I choose the new E option
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Break down the rock pile, and stick the dish over there someplace, place the BIG A where everyone would like it, out in center.
Start the build, it will be a somewhat smaller stadium, so it should fit in this space. All of the stadiums exterior can be completed during the off season before the opening. Breaking down just enough, or as much as they can, of the original park to complete the new one.
There will be the shops, and other options, built after the completion of the stadium. So all of the outside parking level open areas could just be temporary until everything is completed, or if they still want it, build it up after the original park is completely leveled.
Now they are closer to the Pond, and the train station. Build the shops between the new stadium, and parking. This way you would need to pass through all of the shops before entering the stadium. Have a tram of some sorts to help move people to and from parking and the shop/stadium. That whole front area is now wide open, and Arte can build a big sand box there if he wants, but he would like condos too. All rent/lease only, I am sure.
You can do the set up other ways, I’m not too familiar with the roads there, and can’t say where it would be best for the parking to be.
But they could build it the E way, and have things done in two years I would think. Just got to get the deal done with the city first.
This! I like the thought of creating a Downtown Disney / whatever destination that’s accessible to the train station. It would also be cool to build a connected hotel that would allow you to avoid some of the crowds, etc. (something like the Omni in SD?) — you could place something like this within the shopping area, to the west of the stadium. Kinda where option B is.
That would be nice. Closest thing right now is the Ayres at Douglass and Katella.
That’s a great idea, Mas_Angeles. And I’d hope the security perimeter would be outside the retail environment, with the stadium in its midst.
I like this idea.
Mike Trout Stadium should be built by 27.
They can put an actual trout hatchery out beyond CF.
Who says the new stadium would face the same direction? I’d prefer C or B facing the Disneyland Resort/ocean. I loved going to the top of the stairs (as our season tickets were upper deck behind home base) to see the parks fireworks whenever we went.
It doesn’t HAVE to be the same direction but facing west is a nightmare for night games as the setting sun will be right in your eyes.
Put some lipstick on the pig and leave it alone for now. To do anything major will tie up the project for years gaining regulatory approval. I see Arte doing the commercial development before making material changes to the ballpark.
I think he has to build the parking structure and either rehab or replace the stadium before he can introduce retail or residential development to the area. Can’t very well build high rise housing and then have the view be a massive stadium development later.
The city will have some discretionary approvals before anything is built. They will be hesitant to let Arte have his dessert before he eats his peas. I would guess that all of this was worked out in the agreement that he signed with the city.
Approvals for this project will be fast tracked. Architects and engineers will be constantly updating the drawings to get inspections and the building department will be aware of what is happening. There will be a lot of logistical moving pieces but it can be done.
They are going to upgrade the Big A for now right? I thought I heard that was the plan. Then build a parking structure and eventually a new park. The new park will be full of things to complain about and will lack “character” because it’s located in a town with little character beyond Disney in a location that should be neuter-named tech companies and a huge self storage facility. Arte will also make money, which is unacceptable.
The big big wish hope is that the entire project will create something cool that has character of it’s own. Something that perhaps combines The Pond and the Angels Stadium into one big park/shop/stay area. If they did that, with buildings and “streets” contrived to mimic things like the pre-existing buildings at Petco/Camden Yards and Yawkee Way, etc…. created a whole “street fair” vibe, etc it could be cool. That will be a lot of work though. Work that will have to be done in California. I doubt Arte has the cash or clout. He’d be long dead before it’s half done. We will likely get a perfectly good stadium facing a freeway, a parking structure, a strip mall and some condos. It won’t really matter where it’s put on the site, there will still be plenty of people who hate it no matter what.
“something cool that has character” Never in Anaheim these days. We will see 3-5 story Muti-Use Condos 😕
This is a huge undertaking for Arte; one I’m a little surprised he’s taking at this stage in his life and at this location. He’ll probably need to live to 100 to see it through.
I don’t think Arte is going to undertaking much here. He’ll sell the rights to develop to the highest bidder and let them sort it out.
Well, I imagine he’ll want to see some plans first.
I’d kill to get the loan for just one phase of it. Just one. But commercial lending is not my game and I’m sure the sharks are already circling this project.
I think it is tiny, incremental updates and then replacing the current park with a new one in 2025 (I guess), or a full tear-down and rebuild in the way the city enclosed the stadium for the Rams, then Disney renewed the park to its current state. The latter is something the fans live through, the former is something that happens just beyond the stadium walls.
I would think the parking structure has to be built first, regardless of whether the current park is retained or replaced. That parking lot has to be freed up, one way or the other.
The Bigger A enclosure job was largely just an addition to and renovation of the extant stadium. There was very little beyond the outfield fences to tear down; they just had to move the scoreboard.
Interesting that you mention the Pond….The Ducks are busy buying up surrounding land. They’re also pushing all of the other companies in the business campus behind the Pond out. They moved into my wife’s old offices in one of those buildings. They seem to be up to something over there.
The Grove gets demolished, a parking garage is built and the new ballpark is in B. That way parking isn’t too bad during the construction year plus a needed garage is already built. After that, Arte develops a new entrance each year, starting with shopping and dining across from The Pond.
More fans taking the train would be great. Might even be an option for me coming up from Irvine on a weekday.
I don’t give a damn, as long as they put the Big A back inside the stadium.
The decision will be driven by where the most valuable commercial/residential sites are on the lot. The attendance at the stadium will not be influenced by the stadium placement, but the same is not true of the other development uses so they will get the most beneficial siting.
Who cares? They are staying in Anaheim where they belong. To me there is something about the old parks staying where they are- but a new one is fine too.
I’m going to go with D, for PacBell Park Redux.
Put RF wall adjacent to the Santa Ana River, with folks in kayaks loitering around for home runs. Since there will be little, if any, water in the flood control channel, the fun will be in watching the folks out there trying to leap over the kayaks in an attempt to catch the ricochet off the concrete embankments.
I’d go with location B, and include the original Big A scoreboard design.
If Arte elects to renovate, I’d redesign the outfield seats. Left field is too far away due to bullpen location. The high wall in right blocks the 1/3 of the view of right field.
I’d love to hear from CTPG people who are in the construction business provide insight into the financial benefits of renovation v new build.
Retro-fits are generally more expensive so it just depends on the scope of work they would want to do to retro fit the stadium. If it is a major re-build then just build a new one, then tear the old one down when the new one is complete.
Renovate! The “bones” of the stadium are sound. The overall design is good enough to adapt. The major changes should be in the outfield. Create an all-new space that creates a more dome-like feeling: luxury boxes, upgraded restaurants, standing areas, etc. An iconic mechanical addition (think the train at the Astros stadium) would be cool, although I have no idea what that might be.
I am old enough to to remember the enclosed stadium which was ruined for the sake of the Rams, and the rim went all the way around (including the OF). It not only made the park without character, but it changed the air flow in the stadium as well. I wouldn’t be in favor of changing the height or structures in the OF.
I’m with George. Don’t close the stadium in; it was awful that way. I say, open it up more! Tear down the LF stands and put the Big A back where it started, and build low stands (like the ones now in LF) in RF.
“The bones of the stadium are sound”? Ummmm source? Cause I have heard exactly the opposite.
Word is that it will cost as much to renovate the BIG A than it will to build a New A.
@gitchogritchoffmypettis he meant in comparison to chicken bones
That is more or less what I was wondering. The structural beams are one thing, but there are miles of plumbing and electrical throughout the stadium, much of which is encased in concrete or pavement. It is a significant job to redo all that work to make it “new”.
As to the “bones”, I am sure there would be required seismic studies needed before any new work could commence on rehabbing the current stadium. It could be the most solid structure in Southern California for all I know, but there are a lot of steps involved in simply keeping and rehabbing what already exists.
$!M idea: Arte turns this whole thing in to a show on HGTV, with this as the ultimate rehab. Write off the work to production costs on the show. Get Nicole Curtis of “Rehab Addict” to host, since she loves to operate those bulldozers.
The “bones” are actually why they’re doing this. There is a ton of hugely vulnerable infrastructure in the stadium, particularly plumbing and electric.
Building a new one from scratch with modern piping and energy efficient wiring would be a long term winner for them.
B for the stadium, C for the hotel with the caveat that Arte picks up the land on the corner of State College and Orangewood.
B. Right next to the train. Steal the idea from the Astros and make it better. Also makes it for freeway series to have a train to Union Station and their gondola. Maybe can convince them to have their train be more frequent for Angel games too.
More frequent service to Union Station is always a good idea, but more Metrolink service to both Riverside and SB would also be in the best interests of the team and the local highways.
Fans who live on the Lake Elsinore/Temecula areas may not be able to stomach Ortega Highway (who can?), and the tollways add up to serious money for a round trip, but train service from a central point in Riverside County to Angel Stadium could be a boon to increasing the fan base attendance from out there.
Admittedly small sample size, but my wife and I would certainly make it to 5-10 more games a year if there were a Metro to and from anywhere in the Inland Empire to the Big A during the week.