Fansince 1971 takes his shot – aka – Burn It Down and Watch a Phoenix Arise From the Ashes

November 24, 2025

Fansince1971

Good morning/afternoon/evening inhabitants of CTPGs.

I want to start this with a couple of my own ground rules and limitations:

First, I am not an expert in this format and therefore I will lack the flashy photographs, graphs and charts of some of the other illustrious contributors. This will not be a fancy showpiece. But I will do my very best to get the information across with what I do know how to do and maybe the excellent editors of this site can help out a bit.

Second, I do not view this as a predictive piece where I try to guess what Perry will do. Instead, I view this as a statement of either (1) what Perry should do or (2) what I would do if I were Perry – or both. It is important to make this differentiation since what I propose is way bolder and long term focused than what Perry will do or Arte will allow.

Third, this article is likely to please some (few) and piss off many. Good. As you will see, I tear this sucker down and begin the rebuild for the future while still putting a serviceable team on the field for 2026 that will have its moments. There is likely to be an extended lockout in ’27 so I am building the Farm system to come out of that lockout younger, better and with more potential. Additionally, the AL West is extremely strong with the Mariners, Astros, Rangers and even A’s likely to be competing for the playoffs. I have too many holes to fill and budgetary restrictions and a mediocre free agent class. So, I am not looking to “compete” in ’26 but I also want the fans to have fun.

Fourth, rather than repeat what has gone before, I accept and will not repeat the prior analysis of our revered editor-in-chief Jeff Joiner with regard to non-tenders and the impact of trading Ward for Grayson Rodriguez. I therefore have $40 million with which to work.

Fifth – I am focused on trading the major league assets the Angels have that are actually tradable. There will be no Rendon or Trout trades here – it would take a lot of hits on the Hopium or Crack pipe to really believe that is possible. Instead, to build for the future, I have to trade the players on the major league roster who actually have value – regardless of whether they are fan favorites. That includes Neto (sorry). Emotional attachments to players are for fans, not for GMs. I am attempting to avoid trading any of the decent minor leaguers in the system since my goal is to build up the Farm as much as possible.

Sixth (and finally) – I am using the MLB Trade Value Sim and Fangraphs as my sources. I realize these are not perfect but, again, this is essentially a big simulation and those sites are as reliable as we can meaningfully get.

Okay – are you ready? Here we go….

First up the trades:

TRADE #1 Zach Neto (Trade Value 70.8) in a few different possible scenarios

To the Twins for: Walter Jenkins (OF – Trade Value 53.9 – Ranked 21 in Top 100) and either Aaelen Kulpepper (SS – Trade value 17.9 – Ranked 81 in Top 100) or Emanuel Rodriguez (OF – Trade value 24.3 – Ranked 43 in Top 100)

To the Brewers for: Cooper Pratt (SS – Trade value 28.6 – Ranked 61 in Top 100), Logan Henderson (RHP – Trade Value 29.9 – Ranked 83 in Top 100) and Luis Pena (SS – Trade value 6.9 – Ranked 19 in Top 100)

To the Tigers for: Max Clark (OF – Trade value 61.1 – Ranked 17 in Top 100) and Logan Briceno (1B – Trade Value 18.5 – Ranked 38th in Top 100)

To the Cardinals for: J.J. Wetherholt (SS – Trade Value 59.8 – Ranked 7 in Top 100) and Liam Doyle (LHP – Trade Value 29.9 – Ranked 37th in Top 100)

To the Orioles for: Samuel Basallo (1B – Trade Value 54.6 – Ranked 8 in Top 100), Dylan Beavers (OF – Trade Value 13.5 – Ranked 88th in Top 100) and Enrique Bradfield, Jr. (OF – Trade Value 9.3)

ANY of these trades immediately and greatly improve the Angels’ farm system to likely Top-15 status. Of these, I think I most like the Twins trade as I absolutely love Walter Jenkins. That said, the Orioles trade with Basallo being the long term solution at 1B also looks pretty great. You can choose your favorite but I would make any of these deals and happily (and sadly) say goodbye to Neto who has played great and has allowed me to build up the Farm of the future. Also, Neto is Arb eligible after 2026 and will be due for a big raise – I let that be someone else’s problem.

TRADE #2 Jose Soriano (Trade Value 41.1) and Jo Adell (Trade Value 13) to the Reds:

For Sal Stewart (2B/3B – Trade Value 14.6 – Ranked 31 in Top 100), Rhett Lowder (RHP Trade Value 19.7 – Ranked 69 in Top 100), Tyson Lewis (SS – Trade Value 11.6 – Ranked 85 in Top 100) and Cam Collier (1B/3B – Trade Value 9.3 – Ranked 91 in Top 100)

Or if the Neto deal to the Orioles does not happen then to the Orioles for Samuel Basallo (1B – Trade Value 54.6 – Ranked 8 in Top 100) and Dylan Beavers (OF – Trade Value 13.5 – Ranked 88 in Top 100)

TRADE #3 Nolan Schanuel (Trade value 30.2) and Christian Moore (Trade Value 20.4) to the Tigers:

For Bryce Rainer (SS – Trade Value 30 – Ranked 26 in Top 100) and Jose Briceno (1B – Trade value 18.5 – Ranked 38th in Top 100

If I can pull Trades #2 and #3 off (or anything similar) the Farm is moving into the Top 10 systems in baseball. It will be loaded with talent at key positions like SS, 1B and the Outfield to go along with the pitching prospects such as Bremner, Dana and Klassen.

Okay, now that I have traded off the tradable players of value within the MLB roster, I focus on some signings. It should be noted that by trading these players I have another approximately $7 million to play with bringing my total for free agents to $47 million.

So….how to invest the $47 million. My focus will be on short term deals especially with the lockout looming in 2027.

Free Agent Signing #1 – SS Isiah Kiner-Falefa – 1 year $6 million

This should secure SS for 2026 and allow the young talent in the Farm to continue to develop so that the Angels can emerge from the lockout with a rookie at the position.

Free Agent signing #2 – 1B Carlos Santana – 1 year $6 million

Again, this is a placeholder for 2026 but a pretty decent one who can provide some good moments and please the fans with a recognizable name.

Free Agent Signing #3 – 2B – one of the following: Luis Arias, Dylan Moore or Jose Inglesias – all predicted at 1 year and $4 million

This will add infield depth and, again, provide a placeholder for 2026. Of these, I would prefer Arias but could live with any of them.

Free Agent Signing #4 – 3B – Paul DeJong – 1 year $3 million

Infield depth and a place holder until we get through the 2027 lockout.

Free agent Signing #5 – OF – Mike Yastrzemski – 1 year $10 million

This is my favorite signing. Love this guy. He fits right into the outfield and provides some fun moments for 2026. He will be a fan favorite.

Free agent Signing #6 – OF – Randal Grichuk – 1 year $4 million

Grichuk comes home and will fit right into the mix. The 2009 1st round draft will be back on display again. Frankly, this is a placeholder but will provide some nice moments for the fans in 2026.

Free agent Signing #7 – Starting Pitcher Michael Lorenzen – 1 year $8 million

A serviceable pitcher to fit in with the starting staff while the kids continue to mature.

Free agent Signing #8 – Starting pitcher Aaron Civale – 1 year $8 million

See above – serviceable for 2026.

SUMMARY

I accomplished my goal of building up the Farm for whatever remains of the 2027 season and beyond. The Angels farm system is now likely a Top 10 with lots of positional and pitching talent developing to emerge like in the late 1990s and early 2000s. I spent $49 million (which is $2 million over budget) but if this is an issue then I can always back away from signing DeJong and save that $3 million.

I also will put a team on the field that will win probably 65-70 games which is in line with the last decade of performance. There will be some fun players – notably Yastrzemski who will be a fan favorite. My boss may not love me for another mediocre season, but he will love me in a few years (after I am likely long gone). And if things really go wrong, who knows, I may have another top-3 pick in the draft.

Finally, to all of you diehards who really believe that “this is our year” or some other mantra or opiate of the masses – wake up. This team has so many holes and problems and has no Farm to fix it. The value of the players who are traded herein are near or at their peak. As they get more expensive, their trade value will plummet. The Angels have missed trade opportunity after trade opportunity over the last five years to try and support the fallacy of “compete”. This tear down makes up for a lot of those missed opportunities to build the Farm (although the missed Ohtani opportunity cannot ever be made up for). The Angels are playing in a brutal division where each of the other 4 teams has a legitimate claim of being a playoff contender. No matter what happens, with the budgetary restrictions, this team is headed for 5th place in the Division in 2026.

So, let’s do something BOLD and look beyond the immediate horizon to a time where the Angels farm supplies quality position players and pitchers and we build something great here. Like the mighty Phoenix arising from the ashes!

Photo credit: Rex Fregosi

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Trusted Member

cookmeister

1 month ago

This is why I don’t like the trade simulator. It doesn’t take into account reality

0 chance the Reds would trade Sal Stewart and Lowder for Adell and Soriano
0 chance Tigers trade Rainer for Schanuel when they have Tork
less than 0 chance the Orioles trade Basallo (who they just signed to an extension)
Twins are rebuilding and going to trade their best 2 prospects?
Cardinals are rebuilding and going to trade their last 2 first rounders for a position they already have?

Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Hi F71,

Interesting work.

Question: I assume that most of these prospects are at or at least near, major league ready so, why not just play most of them?

Blend them with Rada and some of our other youngsters. I think most of the fanbase could get behind that type of rebuild.

I’d then take the 40+ million and sign 1 or 2 above average FA’s (Think Kikuchi) versus a plethora of dumpster meals.

Said FA’s will make an impact on the field now and will also become attractive trade chips at the deadline.

Author

Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

I’m generally against rushing prospects. But I understand what you are suggesting. I think it would depend on how advanced and ready the prospect was. If ready to play in the Majots – why not?

Super Member

2GA2Join

1 month ago

Great job.
This is the strategy I like the most. If only Perry would do it.

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

1 month ago

Fan71’s 2025 IIWPM.

The post that separates the sheep and the goats. The “But who will I watch in 2026? I may be dead by 2028.” fans and the “I don’t want to sit through this crap for another ten years, gimme the pain.” fans.

Trusted Member

BruinsAngelsKings

1 month ago

I don’t know any of this stuff even remotely as well as the rest of you do. However, I do know enough to know that this is a BOLD move. As the saying goes, fortune favors the bold.

Trusted Member

Kevin

1 month ago

Congrats. You just created an expansion franchise. The only players the Halos might hope for are now gone via your moves. Everything is now based on hot prospects.

As to the rest, if you are doing the above, why sign two old vets like Kiner-Falafa and Santana that are marginal at best. What’s the point of that?

Same with Grichuk? Are you trying to put lipstick on the pig? Same with a few of the other moves?

If they are going with a young team, then go with a young team.

Author

Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Kevin

Addressing your argument that the 2026 team is an “expansion team” with my plan – that really is not correct. It is essentially the team we have now from a WAR standpoint. It is maybe a little reduced, but the current team has lost consistently for a decade. So, maybe the team becomes a 65-70 win team from a 70-75 win team for one season. To grasp what I am trying to do you have to buy into 2026 as already being a lost season and 2027 being either lockout shortened or lost. If you do not buy into that – then you are likely a starry eyed, magic thinking optimist – which is not a bad thing. But magic thinking does not work in the current situation that the Angels find themselves.

If you do buy into the premise that ’26 is a lost season and ’27 may not happen – then who cares what the team does in 2026? There are so many holes that cannot be filled due to a miniscule remaining budget and no farm. So, this team is headed to the cellar anyway. So, who cares about 2026? And 2027 is a complete wildcard season at this point. All signs point to an extended lockout – maybe one that extends into 2028.

Under such circumstances – Neto, Schaunel, Soriano, Moore and Adell all become two years older with no progression of the team. This means they are more expensive and less controllable by 2028 and have far less trade value. So, if they are to be traded for young talent – now is the time. You wait – you lose (see Ohtani and so many other examples).

The thought process is that this team is in a sucky vortex of losing. It is just not going to emerge from it for the reasons discussed (lack of money to fill holes and lack of Farm system to fill holes). You only get out of that vortex by blowing things up and then rebuilding. That is what this concept does and the timing corresponds to a bunch of money coming off the books just in time to fill in the remaining holes. The team emerges with a top-10 Farm system and lots of flexibility.

2026 is a lost season already as is (likely) 2027 due to forces outside anyone’s control. So, now is the time to act boldly and with different thinking.

Last edited 1 month ago by Fansince1971

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

1 month ago

Reply to Kevin

An expansion team with a very good farm system and 98M dollars to spend on FAs in 2027 or 28 isn’t an expansion team for long and you are bitching about two things that are stupid.

First, the dismantling of a team that sucks and doesn’t make you happy. The “expansion” team you are worried about isn’t lipstick on a pig, it’s place holders. But even they will likely finish with a record similar to the one Fan71 blows up here.

Second, clearly your contention is that the current shitty team just needs MORE free agent spending. Then it will be…. still not as good as three of the teams in our division. It’s like you haven’t been watching since 2015. And you are dreaming about ownership, ANY ownership, doing something they are not likely to do.

All Fan’s plan does is turn away from your flawed fantasy. The team itself will actually only be a little worse for far less time than the option you seem to want. But hey, do an IIWPM and explain to me where the money is coming from and how the team won’t suck over the next five years with your ideas…. maybe I’m totally wrong here. You don’t want a pig? Tell us how you plan to obtain/maintain a supermodel.

Editor

Super Member

Turk's Teeth

1 month ago

It’s interesting to contemplate these prospect exchanges.

I think the Reds would value that package of prospects more than Adell/Soriano, personally – I believe they’re (rightly) high on Stewart in particular. The return from Baltimore in the same package I don’t really love, tbh – any trade that sends our a controllable 2/3 pitcher should bring back a couple of projectable arms, imo.

I’m skeptical that the Tigers would find Schanuel an upgrade over Torkelson, and I think McGonigle and Max Anderson are more in their infield plans than Moore would be. Rainer is such a long horizon play for the Angels as well.

Some of these Neto exchanges might play, but he’s an affordable 4-5 WAR player that they control for four years. The Twins trade is tempting, but the others seems to carry a lot of risk, and aren’t slam dunks for me. Neto’s the player I’m least eager to move.

In general, in a teardown, I’d like to see more pitching coming back, because ownership has little appetite for pitching in free agency, and teams that go far in the playoffs tend to have rotation depth and frontline weapons.

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Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Turk's Teeth

Turks – the key to this is that the players identified would return young talented players. The Farm system would get much stronger and players would very likely (much more likely than the current team even getting to .500) emerge that would fill holes in the major league roster and then the remaining need could be filled via free agency with all the money that is coming off the books. The Farm system would be deep in infield and OF talent – and we would see how the pitchers that are in the system develop. There would also then be $100m+ to spend as Rendon, Stephenson and the 1 year contracts come off the books. That is where a top free agent pitcher or two could be signed to bring the young team to the next level.

I do not like moving Neto either – but spending a bunch of money on him in this current situation makes little sense. The team is not going anywhere fast. There is little to no Farm system. So, basically you have Neto at shortstop and a few other pieces. The team is headed towards 5th place again. So, that is the time for bolder and different thinking. Its outside-the-box time.

Sure, in a world where the Angels were on the verge of even something good (not even great) you would never trade Neto or Soriano. But this team is not anywhere close to even good. And there are soooo many holes everywhere. So, you take it as you find it and to me – at this point and time – Neto’s true value is in what young talent can be obtained by trading him. Otherwise you have a consistent 70 win team with Neto at shortstop.

Editor

Super Member

Turk's Teeth

1 month ago

Reply to Fansince1971

I hear you – I’m just evaluating each trade proposal at face value. Does it provide something to the other team than they want or need above their current assets? Do I believe the players coming back project as everyday players who provide equivalent or better value than the players currently going out? Would the team be addressing needs that couldn’t be addressed affordably in free agency?

On those merits, I’m not sure all of the exchanges work for me in the context of a teardown. The main thing is I would hope to see 3-5 promising starting pitchers coming back if these five players were headed out. Especially Soriano and Neto. The Angels typically have to overpay for pitching in free agency.

But I applaud the effort!

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

1 month ago

Reply to Turk's Teeth

Yeah. I’d love to get Sal Stewert and a pile of Tigers prospects but I follow both teams and they are the opposite of the Angels… perhaps in a bad way. They ARE cheap. Their fans are afraid they will hold onto prospects too hard because they are possible cheap MLB players. But this would mean NOT trading for a good starting pitcher or slugger to get them over the hump as contenders. So the window where they are fairly good closes as their players get expensive, and they refuse to jump through the window because they don’t want to trade cheap prospects for expensive players.

In my IIWPM I traded Soriano to Detroit because they TECHNICALLY make a fair amount of money when they are good and likely see themselves as WS contenders with one more good starter. But that depends on them going all in before they lose Skubal.

Member

Awungsauce

1 month ago

Besides the zero chance that this ever happens, this is such a high-risk gamble.

First, you’re killing your reputation with future free agents by blatantly throwing away a season of Mike Trout, who still has a huge reputation around the league. No big name free agent would want to sign with a team that treated their star like this.

Second, you’re trading current young MLB talent for potential prospects, with no guarantee of success. Remember Dallas McPherson? Brandon Wood? Kaleb Cowart? I have no faith in this farm system to develop talent, especially when the top coaches are already promoted to the bigs. We could end up with a worse team at the end of the day.

Third, this team completely throws away this year. We’re looking at another season trying not to get 100 losses. All of the signings are low upside and have below replacement downside, but the biggest problem isn’t even the record. There’s no young player at the MLB level that this team would be trying to develop. There’s placeholders blocking every position and all the good young MLB talent was traded away. All the prospects would still be in the minors for another year. We’d be better off not even having a MLB team at this point.

Lastly, this makes the team irrelevant for the next 2-3 years after this year also. 2026 was never the year, but with Rendon’s contract off the books, a playoff push in 2027 and 2028 was possible. With these trades, you push off the window to 2030 or 2031. No free agents would want to sign here anymore.

The hope is that this collection of young prospects turns into something like the Orioles or Blue Jays, except that the Jays needed free agents to get over the hump (Springer, Gaussman) and the Orioles are stuck in limbo. You can’t win with only prospects.

Editor

Legend

Jeff Joiner

1 month ago

Reply to Awungsauce

While every free agent says they prioritize winning, they really prioritize money. But since most of the really good ones sign with clubs that spend lots of money they also get to win.

If I was a free agent and a team offered me a lot of money to help lead a group of young, talented players to the playoffs I’d probably take it. Especially if I could live at the beach and not have a ton of media to deal with.

Compared to now, that looks pretty good. As of now every free agent coming here has to know they are going to make money and only see October if they get traded or from their couch.

Member

Awungsauce

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Right now, most of the long contracts are by LA and the two NY teams (5 years+). Exceptions are Arizona (Corbin Burnes), SF (Adames), Toronto (Santander), and Seattle (Naylor). None of these teams went full rebuild. Teams that do stay there.

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

1 month ago

Reply to Awungsauce

The Blue Jays went full rebuild. So did Seattle. So did the Tigers. And the Reds. And Boston. And Cleveland. Milwaukee…. constant reload….

These are all teams that did a gut job and we’re seeing them at the end of that building process. Hell, even San Diego was a 70 win team with a buff farm in 2019 and still under .500 in 2021.

Hell. Going back to the Cubs and Astros and Royals…. it’s hard for me to think of a team that had a run of success that didn’t involve stripping down to get as many prospects as possible. You just can’t spend enough money to upgrade positions in a given year while other positions pop up that then need upgrades. Unless you are the Doyers or the New York teams.

Member

Awungsauce

1 month ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

None of those examples are quite like what the Angels would be doing in this scenario. The Mariners didn’t trade Julio, they extended him. They Brewers only trade players on their last year of control. I could go through each team and explain why it’s not the same.

The teams gutted their young veterans at the end of their controllable years. Rebuilding teams don’t trade players with years of control like Neto.

A rebuild would be selling Soriano and Adell, then signing Neto to an extension and building around Moore. Not trading away all your young MLB talent with any value.

Editor

Super Member

Turk's Teeth

1 month ago

Reply to Awungsauce

I honestly doubt that any free agent will make any decisions based on how Mike Trout is used in his age 34 season. While Mike is still well-respected around the league, his chronic injuries are well-understood, and his age-related decline tacitly so.

Free agents will be making decisions based on money received, the likelihood of their new team contending, and to a lesser extent, geography and family concerns.

Author

Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Turk's Teeth

Yes – and the Angels are in the unfortunate position of having basically no money to spend, no meaningful recent history of success (to attract a player in search of a ring) and really no winning atmosphere. Top free agents do not have Anaheim on their mind – except to maybe use the team to drive up the bidding price. The free agents that the Angels attract at this point are generally those that no one else is really interested in.

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

1 month ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Also, in this sense, fk Trout. I’m tired of the “wasted Trout” thing. Even when he was young he always faded when the season was ending. His one play off attempt he SUCKED. Then he got his huge drag anchor of a contract and…. in five seasons with Ohtani we got ONE YEAR of both him and Ohtani being healthy at the same time.

The dude is marooned and it’s his own fault. Why the hell am I supposed to care about that?

Author

Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

I just think the Trout narrative is irrelevant to any decisions. He is 34 going on 40 and long past his prime. If decisions are made because of Trout or what Trout may want, then the team is screwed both by his anchor contract and allowing him to factor into player decisions. That narrative is old just like he has become.

Legend

gitchogritchoffmypettis

1 month ago

Reply to Turk's Teeth

The MLBPA. It’s full of guys willing to completely fk the game they love to defend the possibility that ten of them will get 400M dollar contracts. If they traded a salary cap for a strong salary floor the vast majority of them would make more money over their careers.

This is the group of guys who are supposedly collectively thinking “Man, after Trout got 300M and sucked for a few years the Angels tore the team down and he was stuck there. I can’t sign there.”? It’s more likely they are thinking they can’t sign here because the team sucks and has no future as of yet… and the world is full of nice beaches.

Author

Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Awungsauce

Okay – I will address your points.

First, I reject your first point. No free agent of note wants to sign in Anaheim. The draw for free agents usually comes down to one or both of the following: (1) money and (2) the chance to win a ring. You could add in lifestyle – which Southern California has – but at a steep price (taxes) for highly compensated individuals. With Arte’s budgetary restrictions and the lack of winning, the Angels have neither of the draws that a top free agent seeks. It is not like free agents are knocking down the door and suddenly that demand will stop. There just is not enough money in the budget to attract the top free agents. And the team has shown no ability to win for so long now that free agents attracted to winning are not coming here. So, this fallacy that the ocean of free agents that want to come to Anaheim will suddenly dry up is just not correct. Its a moot point.

Next, with my plan, you are building a farm system which gives you flexibility both in top level young players that do develop and with trade flexibility once the budget does open up with the Rendon monstrosity of a contract coming to an end and Stephenson off the books.You are right that this (on the short term) puts the focus on the Farm as opposed to the major league team – but this MLB team has gone and is going nowhere fast. So, while I acknowledge there is risk – that risk is minimized by the fact that there is no success in Anaheim and none on the horizon. When you are in that box, its time to blow it up.

To your third point, 2026 is already thrown away. There are too many holes and not enough money and no farm system to come to the rescue. The team is already looking at 5th place and at best 4th. And 2027 is likely to be, at a minimum, shortened by a lockout and likely there will be no baseball at all. So, the placeholder approach makes sense under these specific circumstances.

Last, the focus is 2028 where the team would emerge with a ton of positional and pitching talent AND have $100m+ to spend on free agent pitching and to fill the remaining holes. That is two years and one of them there is likely to be no baseball. I do not see that as a long timeline particularly when you consider the high likelihood of failure in 2026 and no solution on the horizon unless you view the team through the most narrow of hopeful windows – which is just simply unlikely.

Your hope that this current team becomes the Blue Jays or Orioles is just pure hopium and magic bean thinking. It is not going to happen. First, Arte is not going to provide the budget to sign impactful free agents, second, the Farm system does not have the players to fill the gaping holes and third this team has shown no ability to come close to competing – much less to .500 which is the first stepping stone. In these specific circumstances, you do not stay status-quo. You either spend wildly to try to fill holes (which Arte won’t do) or you trade whatever is tradable to build up the Farm and fifl holes that way. That is why I am blowing it up with an eye towards reemerging in 2028.

Member

Awungsauce

1 month ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Let me clarify that I don’t hate the idea of trading Neto, Schanuel, Adell, or Soriano. My problem is trading all of them. You’re losing almost 9 fWAR with no immediate replacement. Remember, we actually had a healthy season from Trout and clutch performance from Kenley in the bullpen. This is a 60 win team, not a 65-70 win team. Any GM would need to seriously consider if you want to intentionally build a team that is expected to set a franchise record for losses.

Yastrzemski is the only free agent with any current value, hence why he costs the most. Everyone else has no upside. There are plenty of benefits to getting 75 wins over 60 wins. The players on the team are actually motivated to perform, at least until August. This includes young guys. From a mental standpoint, it’s easier to develop when you’re playing well. Then you can flip your veteran rentals for other prospects at the deadline. This should’ve been the plan with guys like Kenley this year.

Also, I don’t see why the other teams would accept most of these offers, especially the Neto ones. Teams like the Cardinals and Twins are also in rebuilding mode and don’t have a reason to trade prospects for current MLB talent. Plus, the trades are all Angels favored when it comes to the trade value. We’d probably need to give up more, like maybe a Dana, Bremner, or Rada in order to get the combo of Wetherholt and Doyle. Probably similar when it comes to the other deals.

With this full fire sale, this is reminiscent of Marlins fire sales in 1997 and 2005, except without the World Series victories beforehand. Even then, they started playing their young guys right away. Teams don’t do a full sell off, then stash in the minors.

Last edited 1 month ago by Awungsauce

Author

Legend

Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Awungsauce

We disagree on many levels. That’s okay. I’m not going to keep repeating myself. I look forward to reading your IIWPM submission.

Legend

steelgolf

1 month ago

Reply to Awungsauce

Do you really think that this team has even the slightest chance of making the playoffs in 2026? Nope, not going to happen. As the team is built now, they are fighting for 4th in the AL West.

Member

Awungsauce

1 month ago

Reply to steelgolf

No, this team has no shot at the playoffs unless Trout magically goes back in time 5 years. But there are better ways to rebuild without trashing your entire team and throwing a joke of a roster on the field.

At the very least, you could take some flyers on possible bounce-back candidates that you could flip at the deadline. Instead, this team is full of washed-up veterans.

Super Member

BannedInLA

1 month ago

Reply to Awungsauce

Agree that I don’t want to see a bunch of washed up vets soaking up at bats.

If this team took the route of trading Neto, Soriano, Schaneul, etc. for Double & Triple A prospects, then I’d prefer to slot those guys in now along with Rada and some of our young pitchers. At least it would be a true rebuild. Unless they are demonstrably “not ready” for at least a cup of coffee in the bigs, throw em’ out there. Worst case scenario, we can always snatch up leftovers from the trash heap to plug and play if absolutely necessary.

Young players can bat .200 just as well as spent vets that no one wants.

Last edited 1 month ago by BannedInLA

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Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to BannedInLA

Better to let the young players develop before bringing then up. As I wrote, ‘26 would be a single placeholder season.

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Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Awungsauce

If you actually read what I wrote – it’s a placeholder team for really one season. My whole point is building up the Farm with an eye towards 2028 (after the extended lockout). Even if you consider it a joke of a roster it’s for a very short period until the “Phoenix rises from the ashes” (quoting myself 😂). Write a IIWPM and then we can continue this debate.

Super Member

Roy Hobbs

1 month ago

Nice job. Any sort of version of this would be nice. It’s likely there won’t be much 2027 so you roll into 2028 with players and money ready to go. 2026 would be tough as it would mean some suffering, but one year and a labor dispute would be all that separates us from something really exciting. Well done 71.

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Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Roy Hobbs

Thank you. I would love to see some version of this and to really focus and plan for ‘28. Unfortunately it’s unlikely to happen. But we can dream.

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grichmanpoorman

1 month ago

[Wyatt Earp/Val Kilmer voice] “You’re right… I hate it.”

Philosopically: What’s the the point of trading cheap, controllable, proven MLB talent for cheap, controllable, unproven minor league talent? I like Bryce Ranier. I like him just fine. But he will most likely NOT be Zach Neto’s equal as an MLB regular, statistically-speaking, because more often than not, A/AA prospects in that Top 20-30 range do NOT become stars. Neto IS a borderline star. And controllable. So what does trading him get us, besides a couple extra years on the position’s FA window?

You are spectacularly correct about our prospect ranking. Trading our best young talent for prospects will absolutely make us leap up the rankings. But the corollary between prospect rankings and on-field success is hardly 1:1. We all know this. So it’s largely performative.

To Joiner’s point: A lot of money comes off the books in 2026. Trading Neto/Shanny/Soriano (combined 2026 salary < $4M yes?) actually has very little effect on that. I’d rather have them when we make that presumptive big free agent splash, instead of kicking the can down the alley. That’s a small-market trip. Tampa Bay shit. We can keep our nice things.

Last edited 1 month ago by grichmanpoorman

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Roy Hobbs

1 month ago

Reply to grichmanpoorman

We’ll never be any good if we keep them and they are not cheap and controllable for very long. You have two choices, neither of which is completely palatable. You either tear it down or you spend 300M on payroll. neither is a guarantee for success but both provide possibilities.

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grichmanpoorman

1 month ago

Reply to Roy Hobbs

Um… yeah, they will be. Soriano is a FA in 2029. Neto in 2030. Shanny I’m guessing in 2031. If one of them becomes tradeable in the interim because of redundancy… still brings in a nice haul.

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Jeff Joiner

1 month ago

Reply to grichmanpoorman

MLBTR’s arbitration estimates are:
Soriano $3.2 million
Neto: $4.1 million
Adell: $5.5 million
Schanuel is on his last year of minimum wage.

So in total they bring in $13.5 million. Replacing Schanny with another minimum wage guy does nothing to the bottom line, though.

They key question if you keep all of these guys is who do you extend and when? Neto should be the priority but Adell is only 2 years from free agency. Soriano has 3 years left but also a history of arm troubles.

I’m good with extending fan favorites who are good players but if we do we need to be able to add talent around them.

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grichmanpoorman

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

Thanks for that… but $13.5 million is still cheap for that trio. Soriano’s not even a FA until 2029! No way we replace him at comparable cost in any way shape or form.

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Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to grichmanpoorman

$13.5m and increasing. And to extend Neto would likely be $20m per year. These guys are no longer cheap and will get more expensive. And as they do, their trade value goes way down.

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grichmanpoorman

1 month ago

Reply to Fansince1971

Don’t get me wrong… having Jenkins in the org would be exciting. But having Neto is also exciting. And he’s had two 5 WAR seasons in a row. Making peanuts (by MLB standards). He’s 24! Weird we’re even having this convo (I say that with irony… it’s fun).

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Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to grichmanpoorman

Neto gets less exciting and his trade value decreases substantially as he gets more expensive. So if you want to keep him you have to extend him. Are you prepared to commit $100m to that player? If you do you end up with Neto and a bunch of holes with no farm system.

I guess my point with Neto is you either extend him or trade him now. You don’t just tread water.

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Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Fansince1971

I’ll add that if you end up with a SS who is making the major league minimum and who is 80% of Zack Neto but you fill gaping holes with young talented players you end up with a much better ballclub. Under the circumstances the Angels are in right now I could not justify 5 years and $100m to Neto. So better to trade him when his trade value is highest.

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gitchogritchoffmypettis

1 month ago

Reply to Fansince1971

The big issue is, where do you see the team in 2028? Adell is gone by then. Neto will be looking towards free agency as will Soriano. Neither will be all that cheap then and will have limited years of team control. That 71 points of value Neto has now? It drops to 35. Neither of those guys want to stay on the team if it is still under .500.

So you have to ask. By 2028. With simply spending 40M a winter on MOAR free agents. With a farm that is still likely barren. This team is gonna be good enough that Neto wants to be stuck here for eight years?

These “young” guys we are talking about are all about two seasons from not being young at all. If the team isn’t in contention by then there isn’t much point in holding on to them…

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Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to gitchogritchoffmypettis

You said it better than I did. 💯 % agree.

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Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

“I’m good with extending fan favorites who are good players but if we do we need to be able to add talent around them.“

And therein lies the problem unless payroll goes way up. Also – are these players really good enough to justify the holes that exist at so many other positions? It’s a sacrifice but a smart one because the young talent acquired has a good chance of becoming new fan favorites on a much better and younger team.

Trusted Member

AngelsFanInHell

1 month ago

I love your trades, especially Moore, Neto and Soriano. I can easily live with the others.

Super Member

Jim Atkins

1 month ago

Massive reset is just what this team needs. How many times has the front office half-assed the off season trying to improve the team without “affecting team chemistry” or “upsetting the fan base”? If ever there was a case for MLB Thermonuclear Urban Renewal this is it. Of course the 20 megaton strategy extends to the front office and the ownership.

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gitchogritchoffmypettis

1 month ago

I heart this with all my heart meat….

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Jeff Joiner

1 month ago

Waited to read this until it was published and glad I did. Love this and would personally be on board with it.

I think you undersold yourself, however, by failing to mention the entire $49 million you spent comes off the books after 2026 along with Rendon’s $38 million anchor and Stephenson’s $11 million.

In this scenario you roll into 2027 with a pipeline of young talent starting to crack the Major Leagues and $98,000,000 in payroll freed up with Kikuchi’s $21 million in its final year.

Pull off the Twins and Reds trades in the top 2 scenarios, add the Tigers trade, keep every prospect we have, and add two drafts and this could be a massive reset.

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Fansince1971

1 month ago

Reply to Jeff Joiner

You make a great point re the opportunity created in 2028 with all that free payroll and youth. I did not even think about all that money coming off the books.