LA Angels Monday News Crash: On the Brink

The Angels started the weekend off well, winning Friday and Saturday, but then Julio Teheran took the bump Sunday, and things were not pretty. With playoff odds down to 0.5% per Fangraphs, it’s almost time, folks. The Angels can be eliminated Monday.

The other Halo news isn’t that exciting. Franklin Barreto is out for the year. Albert Pujols finally passed Willie Mays in exciting fashion. Justin Upton was hit in the head Friday but played Sunday.

There was a delay in the Red Sox-Yankees game because someone broke into the stadium?

Jose Altuve may no longer get to 3,000 hits. His 2020 numbers are really dreadful…

Tigers manager Ron Gardenhire retired immediately over the weekend due to health concerns. Hope he’s alright…

Justin Verlander is also officially out for the rest of the season.

And finally, to cap off the weekend…the Angels have a better Pythagorean record than the Toronto Blue Jays, who hold the last WC spot, do. Not sure if that’s supposed to make us feel better or worse.

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Designerguy
Super Member
3 years ago

When I look over the Angels 2020 season, only one thing comes to mind…

comment image

Guest
3 years ago
Reply to  Designerguy

Impressive for a 60 game season.

Designerguy
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to 

Just think what 162 games would deliver!

Jim Atkins
Super Member
3 years ago

Ken Rosenthal in The Athletic cites the Halos as the team most likely to dump their GM and says Dave Dombrowski is the favorite among possible replacements.

nishiogawakun
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

I honestly don’t know how I feel about that. Isn’t he know as a “burn the farm down and win now” kind of GM? Can’t say I’m too against that at this point, but what does he have to burn?

Guest
3 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Your “dump their GM” comment and DG’s photo are sequenced nicely.

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

They said that last year and it didn’t happen.
DD is 66 ( too old to put in 12 hr days at that age ). Him and AM just won’t see eye to eye.
get sumbuddy hooz not a analytics Bull Sh*t garbage administrative farce and hire a Grady Fuson disciple. 😠 

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago

comment imagecomment image
both taken after the 3rd rd. 😖  😣 . Just not by us.

Last edited 3 years ago by 2002heaven
steelgolf
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Sorry, they are not “toolsy”.

nishiogawakun
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

LOL

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  steelgolf

I thot it wuz becus theyer not HS outfielders or college catchers 😎 

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  2002heaven

In the fourth round, not taken by us….
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In the 16th round, not taken by us….
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In the 2nd round, not taken by us…
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In the 11th round, not taken by us…..
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Undrafted, but total first round talent….
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Last edited 3 years ago by gitchogritchoffmypettis
Guest
3 years ago

Is that Hamilton in the first photo?

Guest
3 years ago

Mike Schmidt be like…WTF?

Guest
3 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Why don’t you put up a photo of Walsh, taken in the 39th round, by us?

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago

Jayce Tingler…….whodahellisdat?
He’s the San Diego Padres skipper for those of you still make a heart attack and nuclear bomb diffusion deal out of a baseball manager. I had to go look it up……but everybody knows who our skipper is. They could’ve hired the janitor to manage this team with this bullpen who can’t get out a bunch slowpitch softball beer league players out. MLB is about hiring a skilled GM not a spoke in a wheel of the wealthiest team in the sport ( shhhhh!!!……If the Yankees thought he was that important he’d still be there! ). 🤔  🤔 

Eric_in_Portland
Legend
3 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

current managers as I know ’em:
Angels: Joe Maddon
Oakland: Dick Williams
Texas: Ron Washington
Seattle: Lou Piniella
Houston: no idea
KC: Whitey Herzog
Chisox: Al Lopez
Minnesota: no idea
Cleveland: Birdie Tibbetts?
Detroit: Sparky Anderson
Tampa: Lou Piniella
Skanks: Aaron Boone
Boston: no idea
Toronto: Cito Gaston
Baltimore: no idea

assorted NL
Dodgers: Tommy Lasorda
San Diego: Dick Williams
San Fran: Dusty…oh wait, Houston, too
St Louis: Tony LaRussa
all others: Lou Piniella

Guest
3 years ago

Don’t forget Connie Mack.

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago

if we hired Jayce Tingler last November there would’ve been hell to pay.
Unless he did here what he’s doing down in SD. Of course it helps to have FTJ at SS though! 🤔 

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago

Baltimore…….Earl Weaver?

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Have to disagree with both you and gitch on this.

Here’s the deal with managers; there are a good number of games that they make little or no difference in — I’d say about 60% as a rough estimate. An example would be games where either our pitcher or the opposing pitcher is throwing a gem and there is enough early offense to make it a wrap early. For example, if Bieber is pitching and on and the Indians lead 3-0 in the 4th the manager is not likely to blow that game and is certainly not responsible for the win. Likewise, if our starter (or anybodys) gets rocked early and the offense is stalled (games where it is 6-0, 7-0 or 8-0 early) the manager can do very little to win those games (yes, occasionally a great comeback happens and a manager asserts his influence when it is close) and again, is not responsible for the loss. In these types of games, or 7-2 games etc the manager has relatively little impact.

But where he DOES make a difference, and it can sometimes be huge, is in the close games, like 3-2, 2-1 etc. This is particularly true in the mid to late innings when bullpen decisions are made. In general, the manager has relatively little impact early in games. In contrast, he tends to have alot of impact late in games, particularly when they are close. So, it is not that the manager is either important or unimportant (as gitch and apparently you believe) but that his importance is relative and context dependent.

To carry the discussion further, a great manager will not make a really bad team with very little talent great, but in theory he can make them less bad, or possibly even average. A great manager can however, make an average team good and he can defininitely make a good team very good or even great. Thus, giving Joe Maddon a team with no SP will not result in the team suddenly becoming great (no surprises there, duh !). This is all about degrees guys. Gitch and a few others oversimplify things by making a blanket statement that “managers don’t matter.” This is said as if you or I could manage an MLB team as effectively as an experienced professional. It is true that alot of people could win a certain amount of MLB games, because as I already stated, there are alot of games in which the manager simply does very little to contribulte to the victory or loss. But in those games where he does insert his influence he can definitely lose games.

The way that I tend to look at it is that the manager can’t win games, but he can lose them! Thus, the managers job is essentially not to lose the game. He needs to put the players in the best position to succeed. When he fails to do that he is failing at his job. He doesn’t need to throw a single pitch or get a single hit to make a difference, but in those small percentage of games where he does have an impact, there are a certain number of times when he actually loses the game for his team. Let’s say that is 5%-10% of the time. Obviously that is enough to impact a season if the team is talented enough to be competive. If the team is talented and plays alot of close games that percentage and thus impact would be greater.

Also, this is not even taking into consideration the importance of team culture, team attitude and team building (including how a manager builds relationships with his players etc) and other intangible factors that could arguably effect wins and loses. I happen to believe these things are real, though not measureable. If others don’t believe it, well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree because it is not something that can either be proven or disproven.

In summary, in baseball the manager DOES have a very real impact. However, this impact is relative. It is context dependent and team dependent.

Last edited 3 years ago by JackFrost
gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

Yes, when the manager goes to the pen and the guy he brings in actually pitches well then…. the manager has helped win the game? But when a manager brings in a pitcher late in a game and that pitcher sucks it’s the manager who sucks? But some of this can be overcome by magical stuff like culture… which is somehow only found in clubhouses where winning is already happening, not in places like Arizona. Maddon left his bag of culture in Chicago, for example, but if the Angels start winning next year it’s because UPS finally got it to the door.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago

Did you not read what I wrote? I openly stated that manager’s don’t win games. Thus your comment about the relief pitcher coming in is nonsensical. Players win games. But managers can lose games. You can again oversimplify things by saying if the pitcher pitches poorly that is his fault, not the managers. But if there a better pitcher available to the manager in the pen and the manager chooses not to bring him in because he is operating under some sort of code of loyalty to the crappy pitcher then YES he did contribute to the loss when the less good pitch made bad pitches. Your lack of insight is astounding.

gitchogritchoffmypettis
Legend
Reply to  JackFrost

What I am saying is that this idea of a “code” is bullshit. When you have a bunch of pitchers in the bullpen who don’t execute, you lose. We, for example, can’t just bring in our two semi-reliable arms every game all the time. Your theory doesn’t work for me because, as long as a pitcher sucks and we lose, there will ALWAYS be some other pitcher who would have been better to bring in. In your line of thinking there can ALWAYS be some guy who SHOULD HAVE been brought in, when generally speaking, teams that win regularly face that vast chasm of “what if” far less often because a big chunk of their bullpen just doesn’t blow it all that often.

In short, if your bullpen pitches badly in general then having the greatest managerial mind in the world choosing which turd he brings out (or does he destroy the one or two good arms he has pitching them to death?) isn’t going to win you any games. Not to mention that, in most cases, this “code” and “loyalty” guys like you love to wail about is usually hard to verify statistically until, wonder of wonders, you suddenly have a few really good pitchers who carve out roles, just like the magic “culture” fairy dust that appears when a team starts winning with good players.

For example, who is the Angels pitcher this year you feel is the beneficiary of the “loyalty code”? I bet he has the same or fewer IP than our four passable relievers, some of whom missed time with injury which is probably why the guys you have a problem with have gotten some of their innings in the first place.

Your lack of insight into this astonishingly simple perspective is flabbergasting. Players who play well win. Players who do not don’t. You could have Hannibal Barca as manager and he can’t change that. No one can make Buttrey’s fastball move again accept Buttrey and no one can make Mayers or Pena able to pitch every day accept OmniCorp. Sad but simple.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago

Uggh. You still don’t get it.

I already acknowledged that a manager can’t make a crappy team with no talent good. When the manager of a crappy team looks down in his bullpen and sees a load of shit arms it doesn’t make any difference who he brings in because THEY ALL SUCK.

But with an above average team with at least some talent the decision making becomes more important. Do you get it? Finally.

2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

The fact that Arte cares more about the skipper ( Scioscia and now Maddon ) and pays him way more than the GM is testimony to what he thinks matters. 😥  😫 
MLB is a clearly a front office and scouting driven sport ( Theo Epstein, Brian Cashman, Farhan Zaidi, Andrew Freidman, and formerly Dave D*mbro**ki and Jeff L*hn*w ) and what they are or we’re getting paid compared to Billy Epp**r. 🤔  🤔 
That’s my point about San Diego with a rookie unknown in Jayce Tingler who’s making a fraction of what Maddy’s getting from Arte and with the third best record in MLB while we’re a absolute longshot to get in as the ALW 2nd place team with a losing record. 🤔 

Last edited 3 years ago by 2002heaven
JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Well, unlike gitch, I do agree with a lot of what you are saying. For instance, I totally agree with your comment about the relative importance of the GM.

The GM in baseball is much more important that the GM role in the NFL or the NBA. The NBA is a star driven league, the NFL is a coaches league, and MLB is a GM’s league.

This is not to say that the manager in baseball is unimportant however. He is still important, generally speaking. He is just not as important as the GM.

And again, the importance of the manager is much greater on talented and highly competitive teams where a few bad decisions in close games, especially in the playoffs, can be the difference between winning a championship or not. Or the difference between losing in the NLDS or moving on. Here I would say Dave Roberts of the Dodgers is exhibit A.

Last edited 3 years ago by JackFrost
2002heaven
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  JackFrost

Doyer’s have a Achille’s Heel in their bullpen.
especially since Jansen’s heart condition and known decline in velocity. The Doyers were zeroing in on the Pirate’s closer Felipe Vasquez until his disastrous arrest happened. The GM is also important in the NBA because and the coach a lot less in recent years ( because front office maneuvering and FA matters big ).

Last edited 3 years ago by 2002heaven
JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  2002heaven

Not saying GM is unimportant in NBA, just not as important as MLB.

In the NBA one player joining your team can automatically catapult you into the playoffs, if that player is a superstar. For instance, any team LeBron James joined immediately becomes a playoff team, no matter who else is on the squad.

Obviously this is not true in football or baseball. Mike Trout and the Angels being a case in point. That is what I meant by the NBA being a “star driven league.”

Fansince1971
Legend
3 years ago

Altuve needs a buzzer or a trash can bang. With those he can get to 3,000 hits. If he knows what pitch is coming he is Ty Cobb. If he doesn’t he is Ty Detmer. He should have an asterix next to any accomplishment in his career.

GrandpaBaseball
Legend
3 years ago

Well Fletch has gone and about did it, yep, with a week left he once again despite missing about 2 weeks is leading the team in hits and doubles, but not runs scored as Trouty has sewed that up. At one time unimaginable but Mike may not lead the team in walks and OBP. Next season will be more enjoyable for us l believe.
Noticed that we have moved down the ladder from drafting in the 3rd spot to now the 7th or 8th spot, seems like this team knows just how to mess things up good (lol)
l think it would be interesting to move Ward to the #2 hole and Walsh to #5 in the line up as he is a little bit faster with a better OBP.

JackFrost
Super Member
3 years ago

Ward has had a nice month or so, but he has in no way earned a regular everyday spot, and especially has not earned the right to be the # 2 hitter in the lineup going into 2021. That spot on most teams is reserved for the best hitter on the club, which Ward certainly is not.

I know Maddon has taken to putting Trout in the 3 slot, but we don’t know if that will be his place next season. Even if it is, he’ll surely find somebody else to put in the 2 hole, not Ward. My guess is that Walsh will get a shot. Ward has shown zero power this year and I think you’d need at least some in that position. At best Ward has given himself the inside track to being a super utility guy next year. I don’t see him as an everyday outfielder, though it remains to be seen who will be in RF to start next season. Maybe Marsh or somebody else has a really good showing in Spring Training that opens the door for them.

Jim Atkins
Super Member
3 years ago

The linked article about Altuve has some pretty schadenfreude-laden comments. Nice read to start your day with.

nishiogawakun
Super Member
3 years ago
Reply to  Jim Atkins

Loved that.